Turbine éolienne Rotative Bi Plan (ROBIPLAN)

[blackbird]

A good place to start is with the reports on the NALSA site:
http://www.nalsa.org/DownWind.html

If there is additional data you'd like let me know.

[dedeleco]

Good for downwind but nothing for upwind in wikipedia !!

No information on the blades, their shape special or not, orientation of blades, of your turbine.
have you gears, clutch, ??

As it is, your blackbird can go upwind, at what speed ???

For the basic physics, why the wind turbine give more energy than taken by the wind, wikipedia gives nearly nothing convincing, and the vidéos on youtube with analogy with sailing boats with transverse wind for the blade of the turbine is quite more convincing, how the traction or portance can be larger than the drag on a wing or sail !!
It would be very useful to put this pedagogical explanation in wikipedia ??

I am very interested for the case upwind and your proposition to give informations because it is quite more difficult to have a wind turbine with the smallest drag for the obtained energy extracted from the wind.

The design is very different from usual wind turbine where drag is not so fundamental to minimize.
Here the efficiency is not so usual, as power over drag and not power over size.

[blackbird]

Good for downwind but nothing for upwind in wikipedia !!

Two wikipedia entries for Downwind faster than the wind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_fa ... n_the_wind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(land_yacht)

I've made some edits to the first article, but none to the second one yet. I've learned you have to be VERY careful about editing these things if you don't want people to click undo five minutes later. The second article could and should be much more. I hope to add a history section, and perhaps a theory section.

No information on the blades, their shape special or not, orientation of blades, of your turbine.
have you gears, clutch, ??

Are you asking for that information to be posted here on the forum, or suggesting it for wiki? I'm happy to do either.

As it is, your blackbird can go upwind, at what speed ???

It's not currently configured to go upwind. We plan to build a turbine this winter to replace the prop. We'll also make changes to the transmission. My goal is upwind at 2X wind speed. But I'll be happy if I can go upwind at 1X wind speed.

It would be very useful to put this pedagogical explanation in wikipedia ??

I've had the same frustration as you on a number of occasions. I've posted explanations that are perfectly rigorous, but not waist deep in mathematical formulas. The idea is to make them accessible to non aero engineers. Unfortunately, people seem quick to dismiss explanations that aren't beyond their grasp.

I am very interested for the case upwind and your proposition to give informations because it is quite more difficult to have a wind turbine with the smallest drag for the obtained energy extracted from the wind.

The design is very different from usual wind turbine where drag is not so fundamental to minimize.
Here the efficiency is not so usual, as power over drag and not power over size.

You make a good point. I haven't dragged out the analyses or simulations since our construction last year. I'll have to dust them off.

[dedeleco]

Unfortunately, people seem quick to dismiss explanations that aren't beyond their grasp.

Incredible for me, but a psychological reality !!

For me, even when able to grasp complex long calculations, I cannot trust, because errors probability increases with the length of calculations and the complexity of hypothesis which can be wrong easily !!
I remember in the past, 30 pages of complex calculations, wrong without making them again, because the starting assumptions were no more fullfilled at the end !!!
For this reason, I search simple explanations easy to grasp and to control the assumptions and the errors before or after calculations !

The calculations or computer are understanding at the place of some ingeneers, sometimes !!

For example the assumption of a wind turbine at the place of a propeller (which looks strange at first sight ) is sufficient to block any understanding with or without complex and long calculations !!

For thoses like me, at least, it is good nevertheless, to find in wikipedia, the simple convincing explanation starting with a sail moving faster than the wind on a boat or a sail wagon and showing with figures of forces, the similitude for the blade referential and giving clear simple answers to the different objections which hinder understanding.

If possible, I would be happy to read more informations on your blackbird, blades, and others, as you like on the forum or wiki, better for more many persons, but open to discussions on forums.

I hope that you have patented the original results of your work, because the applications are as numerous as for the sails !!
The sails are not finished 5000 years later their invention!!
The same is valid for the future blackbirds.
Competitions are beginning and the optimum is difficult, more than for sails.
Many will be happy to buy as toys over the world .
For boat or surfing, it could be faster than sails.
You can be as fast as a TGV, more than 300Km/h !!

[blackbird]

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/1 ... black.html

[Flytox]

Il me semble qu'une donnée vous a échappé. Normalement c'est le Français qui sert à s'exprimer sur ce Forum....

[blackbird]

Il me semble qu'une donnée vous a échappé. Normalement c'est le Français qui sert à s'exprimer sur ce Forum....

I apologize for my inability to speak French. I will put my posts through Google translate, or cease to post altogether, if that's what the people here prefer.

---

Je m'excuse de mon incapacité à parler français. Je mettrai mes messages via Google translate, ou de cesser d'afficher tout à fait, si c'est ce que les gens d'ici préfèrent.

[bernardd]

Il me semble qu'une donnée vous a échappé. Normalement c'est le Français qui sert à s'exprimer sur ce Forum....

Yes, and "flytox", this is french as everybody can see :-)
Oui, et "flytox", c'est du français aussi, comme chacun peut le constater :-)

Don't worry, Blackbird, Flytox is the forum expert for humor :-) Keep writing on this forum.
Ne t'en fait pas, OiseauNoir, Flytox est l'expert du forum concernant l'humour :-) Continue à participer à ce forum.

[dedeleco]

Oui, Flytox, mais ce n'est pas toi, ni des français, qui ont fait un bolide à 2,8 fois la vitesse du vent arrière, et qui peut dans le mistral concurrencer le TGV à 280Km/h.
mais ce sont des amerlocs !!
Donc il faut parler leur langue pour savoir !!!

D'autre part les translation google laissent beaucoup à désirer au point que c'est insupportable !!
Les mots et la grammaire ont encore trop de sens complexes !!

Conduire une voiture semble plus facile pour les ordinateurs que de traduire une langue correctement !!

[pascal HA PHAM]

Bonjour à tous,
Hi everybody,

RICK : Ho, no...dont stop to write us, to show us what you do and what you now !
I think :
Whatever the language, it is important to be in the wind and stay in this subject... be in the wind is to respect your work but also respect others sympatics readers, and to meet us in one or in other own language...it's not a problèm....technic is so interresting to discuss more and more for many time….I am sorry for this bad writing of Flytox.

Pour Flytox :
Peut importe la langue, par contre il est important d’être dans le vent, d'y rester et de rester dans le sujet…être dans le vent c'est aussi respecter les autres, leur travail, et aller au devant d’eux dans leur propre langue, par exemple : cela s'appelle être gentleman.
Avec tout le mal que je me donne s'il y a du grabuge un jour sur le fil du ROBIPLAN pour de telles conneries : moi aussi je retire tout et j'en parlerai dès que possible avec les membres de notre team.
Ton com est assez déplacé dans le contexte technique mondial et novateur des WPV que nous essayons de promouvoir ici, sur ECONOLOGIE...!
donc plus de boulettes de ce genre me semblerai assez indispensable pour la suite.

Christophe qu'en penses tu ?.


En attendant revenons à la voilure du ROBIMOV’IT :

Waiting, we return to the plants of the PWV « ROBOMOV’IT….
Videos of this morning, near my house….sorry : it’s a little bit short but it had been stopping by the rain.

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pascalhapham/9395682

Another video between two drops of water:
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pascalhapham/9395962/


It only needs the biplane to make the first road test with the ROBOMOV’IT witch is on the vidéo.
THEN TECHNICALY :
The upper axle for the rotating wings is at 2.40 mètre of the ground, the maximum width between masts is 1,5 meters and vertical clearance of 1.75 meters, which gives two aéras of about 2.5 M2 unit = a total of about 5 m2 for the full biplane aéra.
This aéro mécanical organisation should be able to start the WPV "ROBIMOV'IT" without helping/ assistance and without clutch 100% UP the wind, under winds still fairly low, and after to go / to drive this atypic PWV in all the directions (0 to 360° of the wind direction).

Et de 3, mais j’arrête car tout mon matériel va être mouillé.
Je suis très très impatient d’avoir la voilure du biplan ! Oui, ça c’est sûr !

And tree !, but I stop because all my equipment will be wet.
I am very very anxious to have the wings of the biplane! Yes, that's for sure!

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pascalhapham/9396048/



Have a great day.

Pascal HA PHAM