Turbine éolienne Rotative Bi Plan (ROBIPLAN)

[dedeleco]

bernardd ask :

Would you have any hint/reference about this ? It is always useful to show that peer review is a censorship on real breakthrough discoveries :-)

There is many cases of very more fondamental discoveries with the seminal paper first refused, even written by future Nobel price winners (prions as I remenber) !!!

peer review, is like any others, they follow what they know well and refuse too disturbing, even completely true, because in 999/1000 cases theses papers are completely wrong !!
The quality of writing is very essential for peer review !!

You have opposite cases of many faked papers not too disturbing, accepted like the 60 papers by Schön at Bell Labs and also the painted mouse !! Nobody was able to reproduce five years later !!

For completely new ideas, it is very difficult to know if it is true or false, without reproducing completely, and peer review cannot make the same new experiment !!

[bernardd]

Ben bernardd, non il n' y a pas de vent sur le tapis roulant, dans le sens où il n'y a pas de résistance aérodynamique au déplacement du chariot dont la vitesse est quasi nulle dans son milieu...

Il va falloir réviser les changements de référentiel :-)

Si le chariot est posé sur le tapis roulant sans bouger par rapport au tapis, il voit bien l'air lui arriver dessus, avec tous les frottements associés.

Si le chariot roule en sens inverse du tapis, à la même valeur absolue de vitesse, alors le vent apparent s'annule : comme un chariot sur terre qui roule dans le vent exactement à sa vitesse.

L'analogie fonctionne donc bien.

[dedeleco]

Avant de donner des leçons, il est plus efficace de poser des questions pour vérifier la compréhension...

Arrêtez de troller et faire perdre le temps et leurs repères aux lecteurs à comprendre vos explications fausses avec des raisonnements totalement vaseux et des termes avec définition si floue que vous y voyez ce qu'on vous explique après et prenez le temps de réfléchir avec rigueur !!

Il est clair qu'avec votre vocabulaire flou voire vaseux, vous avez eu des problèmes avec des peer review plus exigeants au point de ne plus les supporter !!

Il va falloir réviser les changements de référentiel :-)

Enfin, vous commencez à réviser !!
ce qui est totalement évident en vélo avec le vent dans le dos à la vitesse du vélo !!

Il y a encore plein d'évidences à réviser sur wikipédia !!

[bernardd]

Un peu de verveine, dedeleco ? Une fois calmé, on peut reprendre l'explication de Blackbird :

Now let's tow this cart up to 20 mph in a 15 mph tail-wind and let it loose. That means it will feel a relative head-wind of 5 mph over the cart. Now I'll adjust my generator output until it produces 20 lbs of drag at the wheels. This means I'm putting power in at a rate of 20 mph x 20 lbs (400 mph-lbs). But I only get 340 mph-lbs out of the generator due to its limited efficiency. I deliver that power to the electric motor. But I only get 289 mph-lbs at the motor's shaft due to the motor's innefficiency. So I'm putting 289 mph-lbs into the prop - but it's only doing about 245 mph-lbs work on the air due to it's innefficiency.

So now lets see how much thrust I'm getting from my prop...

245 mph-lbs / 5 mph (the speed I'm moving through the air) gives 49 lbs.

So we're producing 49 lbs of thrust and only 20 lbs of drag. But we haven't yet accounted for the rolling resistance and aero drag. If we can get both of those numbers to come in at a total of less than 29 lbs (which should be a piece of cake) we'll be going 5 mph faster than the wind and still accelerating. But why?

Au niveau des roues, il dit :

Now I'll adjust my generator output until it produces 20 lbs of drag at the wheels. This means I'm putting power in at a rate of 20 mph x 20 lbs (400 mph-lbs).

Si je traduis "drag" par freinage, on a la puissance générée aux roues qui s'écrit :

PuissanceRoue = VitesseChariot/Sol x ForceFreinageChariot
400 mph-lbs = 20 mph x 20 lbs

Au niveau de l'hélice il dit :

So now lets see how much thrust I'm getting from my prop...
245 mph-lbs / 5 mph (the speed I'm moving through the air) gives 49 lbs.

Ce qui permet de retrouver :
PuissanceHélice = VitesseAir/Hélice x ForcePousséeHélice
245 mph-lbs = 5 mph x 49 lbs

J'ai seulement mis des noms que j'espérais intelligibles sur les variables utilisées.

Dans son cas, il avait pris en compte des pertes sur la transmission :
PuissanceHélice < PuissanceRoue
400 mph-lbs < 245 mph-lbs

Je les avais prises nulles pour simplifier.

Libre à vous de proposer d'autres noms aux variables, mais vous n'êtes pas obligé de dépasser les limites de la bienséance pour cela.

[bernardd]

Thank you Blackbird, i had some time to have a look on that : you had a nice human adventure on this teaser !

I have also note your technical website : http://thinairdesigns.com/

And a photo i like very much :
http://kimballlivingston.com/wp-content ... ndfarm.jpg

in http://kimballlivingston.com/?p=3922

Do you have a reference/list of your articles ?

Here are some articles written about the project by Wired magazine:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/do ... n-the-wind
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/07/do ... l-prove-it
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/07/it ... -possible/

And an article written by us at their request:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/08/ddwfttw/all/1

I submitted an article to Make magazine that is scheduled to run in the next issue:
http://makezine.com/magazine/

Also Wired magazine is planning to run a feature in their print magazine shortly.

And we're preparing an article for a peer reviewed journal as mentioned.

Some more:

Popular Science: http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010 ... s-question

Discover Magazine: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/scien ... /#more-647

Kimball Livingston’s Blog accounts:
http://kimballlivingston.com/?p=3971
http://kimballlivingston.com/?p=3922

USA Today:
http://content.usatoday.com/sujets/arti ... V063M6R1/1

“Suite 101” article:
http://engineering.suite101.com/sujetli ... ommentForm

Some German coverage:

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/tech ... 97,00.html

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/windk ... n-1.955017

http://www.spektrumdirekt.de/artikel/1035421&_z=859070

http://wir-klimaretter.de/nachrichtense ... er-windThx

I'm also aware of a couple of Russian print articles, but I have no links for them.


And a fun video on the project:

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily- ... clip298008

[pascal HA PHAM]

be cool : two small pictures for the road !

wind turbine race 2010 in dannemark : a black vehicle UP the wind:


somewhère 2010 in USA : blackbird DOWN the wind


thank's Robert and Rick for thèse beautifulls runs

Pascal HA PHAM

[dedeleco]

Beaux extrèmes opposés, le premier est une eolienne actionnant les roues et l'autre un avion sur roues avec les roues comme moteur.



On peut même faire envoler ainsi par vent arrière un avion planeur avec volant d'inertie stockant l'énergie du vent avant envol pour le faire monter assez haut après envol pour attraper une ascendance !!

[bernardd]

Blackbird,

Would you have the real data describing the Blackbird and one of the runs ? weight, cx, surface, wheel parameters, speeds of wind and of Blackbird, ...

Any parameter useful to have the physical description of the run ?

[blackbird]

Blackbird,

Would you have the real data describing the Blackbird and one of the runs ? weight, cx, surface, wheel parameters, speeds of wind and of Blackbird, ...

Any parameter useful to have the physical description of the run ?

Yes. The good news and bad news is that I have TONS of data. I'll have to sift through and figure out how to post stuff that's useful.

[bernardd]

Yes. The good news and bad news is that I have TONS of data. I'll have to sift through and figure out how to post stuff that's useful.

If you don't mind, you may put the files on website and ask help to mine data : gold is hidden there :-)

I'm sure some students would be very happy to work on it.